Believe link=topic=1268.msg19081#msg19081 date=1176207400]
cherry link=topic=1268.msg19051#msg19051 date=1176170155]
WesJT2006 link=topic=1268.msg19043#msg19043 date=1176157633]
If you think this can't be the Pumpkins without james then how can you say it's Zwan2 if all the other zwan members aren't involved?

OHHHHH! The man has a point. Think of G'n'R (for lack of a better example). Axl Rose still uses the name Guns and Roses but he's the only remaining original member. But he only takes heat for Slash and the others...not the fans. So be supportive guys.


U cant be serious!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

So u will compare the Guns N Roses of today with the GNR of the 90's???? OK i see u just have no musical taste so I won't argue this point anymore.


The point is - sure u can replace anybody on your favorite football team too but it wont be the same team. U dont break up a championship team and say "well the new guys still wear the same jerseys - whats the difference????


Calm down, Believe. There's no need to laugh at someone or claim superiority in taste over a difference in musical preference.

Hey Murder, I wasn't laughing at anyone - just the comparison of old Guns N Roses to the New Guns N Roses.

Sorry if i offended anyone.

stumbleine link=topic=1268.msg19037#msg19037 date=1176155546]
Believe link=topic=1268.msg19023#msg19023 date=1176133458]
OK - so in order to get the ideals back of the whole band - wouldnt u need the whole band???


yeah.

and believe, do you mind if i also have billy's quote as my signature?


Of course not...someone should show it to Billy.

Believe link=topic=1268.msg19081#msg19081 date=1176207400]
cherry link=topic=1268.msg19051#msg19051 date=1176170155]
WesJT2006 link=topic=1268.msg19043#msg19043 date=1176157633]
If you think this can't be the Pumpkins without james then how can you say it's Zwan2 if all the other zwan members aren't involved?

OHHHHH! The man has a point. Think of G'n'R (for lack of a better example). Axl Rose still uses the name Guns and Roses but he's the only remaining original member. But he only takes heat from Slash and the others...not the fans. So be supportive guys.


U cant be serious!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

So u will compare the Guns N Roses of today with the GNR of the 90's???? OK i see u just have no musical taste so I won't argue this point anymore.


The point is - sure u can replace anybody on your favorite football team too but it wont be the same team. U dont break up a championship team and say "well the new guys still wear the same jerseys - whats the difference????


How do you know I like either of them? I happen to hate Axl Rose's voice and his persona. I Completely agree that the G'N'R of the 90's was 10x better because at least there was Slash and the gang to even things out for me. Now it's basically just rotten old Axl...

But on your analogy of the football team, you cannot force people to stay on a team if they don't want to be there b/c it will disrupt team chemistry. If you can bring in a guy that does the exact same thing as the previous member, and He WANTS to be there, then what's the problem? After all isn't a great final product all we're after here?

there's no bamboozling happening here billy and jimmy just want to play there songs again and play the new ones too.

cherry link=topic=1268.msg19101#msg19101 date=1176239693]
Believe link=topic=1268.msg19081#msg19081 date=1176207400]
cherry link=topic=1268.msg19051#msg19051 date=1176170155]
WesJT2006 link=topic=1268.msg19043#msg19043 date=1176157633]
If you think this can't be the Pumpkins without james then how can you say it's Zwan2 if all the other zwan members aren't involved?

OHHHHH! The man has a point. Think of G'n'R (for lack of a better example). Axl Rose still uses the name Guns and Roses but he's the only remaining original member. But he only takes heat from Slash and the others...not the fans. So be supportive guys.


U cant be serious!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

So u will compare the Guns N Roses of today with the GNR of the 90's???? OK i see u just have no musical taste so I won't argue this point anymore.


The point is - sure u can replace anybody on your favorite football team too but it wont be the same team. U dont break up a championship team and say "well the new guys still wear the same jerseys - whats the difference????


How do you know I like either of them? I happen to hate Axl Rose's voice and his persona. I Completely agree that the G'N'R of the 90's was 10x better because at least there was Slash and the gang to even things out for me. Now it's basically just rotten old Axl...

But on your analogy of the football team, you cannot force people to stay on a team if they don't want to be there b/c it will disrupt team chemistry. If you can bring in a guy that does the exact same thing as the previous member, and He WANTS to be there, then what's the problem? After all isn't a great final product all we're after here?



See that's the problem. I'm sure Axl was thinkin "I'll just get a guy who can play as good as slash but wont argue with anything I say because I'm Axl Rose." As most people know The Pumpkins never just got along. There was always turmoil in the band whether it was Jimmy's drug binges or James and D'arcy's break up - there was always conflict and look what came from that. How well a team works together is judged by success - Smashing Pumpkins was a successful band. On the other hand - he handpicked the people for Zwan and ended up hating their guts later and wishing Zwan never happened. He thinks more of Darcy and James than he does the cast of Zwan, who knows in a year he might hate his new handpicked line-up as well.

Oh, and people aren't robots. You will never find two people that can do exactly the same thing just as well as the next.

BUT I do agree with you on one thing - Axl is old and rotten

Believe link=topic=1268.msg19018#msg19018 date=1176130176]
I'm sure everyone here will buy the album - (this is the PUMPKINS.NET????)

What album, i thought this a was a site for lovers of pumpkin farming to get together and compare size, if you know what I'm sayin...

I don't know what to say about this....

I think Billy and Jimmy just want to rock the hell out.

that's right pumpkinpieces. And that's what they're gonna do. And despite all that's been said here, you're all gonna like it so much, then there will be no more complaining about James's absence or commercial stunts or whatever

Well, if your not complaining now you probably won't be in the future. For those who loved James & Darcy and their contribution - it will never be the same.

You may as well tell the fans who loved the old Guns N Roses to just forget Slash and keep rockin'.

It's really not that simple.

That's just because GnR simply isn't the same without Slash (he was too important for the band), while we don't really know the situation with the pumpkins, though again: some (including me) think that James was really not that important for the pumpkins' sound. Slash was an important composer for GnR and a brilliant guitarist, James was neither for the pumpkins (ok, he's a pretty good guitarist, but that doesn't make him indispensable).

mm yeah I know, we're going in circles here.

The point is, I love James and Darcy as well, but not in the amount that there could be no pumpkins without them for me. They are my idols, but Billy is my god. They are really cool persons, but the music itself is more important to me.
Is the album gonna be good? I don't think that James' or Darcys ab- or presence is gonna affect that (or has affected that).

i agree. I am only connected to Billy, its his band, his music, his poetry. I'm in it for the awesome music and Billy. I respect the band but they never seemed to be important to me.

then change your name to billybits

mine is corganvision for a reason.


vision

OK - Thank you all for ending this conversation. It's cool that you are excited about the new Billy Corgan album. I think we all like to hear new Billy Corgan Music or a any new music from any members of the band. (I really liked the Jimmy Chamberlain Complex.) I understand where you all stand now. Just try and understand that when you say Smashing Pumpkins - you are not saying Billy Corgan. People who were fans of the band at the beginning saw 4 musicians blossom under that name. When I think Nirvana or Guns N Roses I dont just think of the lead singer. There is a reason why Ringo and Paul just don't get together with two other guys and call themselves The Beatles. They realize that with 2 other people it would not be The Beatles. The Smashing Pumpkins were that good at one time - even better than the beatles in my eyes) and some die hard SMASHING PUMPKINS fans just are not willing to except a substitute - at one time neither was Billy (as you can see in my quote at the bottom.)

Bottom Line: I did not come along in the period when Billy was a solo artist.

I became familiar with Billy AFTER hearing the Pumpkins so the Pumpkins will never mean Billy Corgan to me.

Everyone here claims to know so much about how the songs were made and u all want to assume nobody played a role but Billy Billy's own words say different and none of you were there so i'll take his word for it and for your reading I will post this quote again:

"There's a lot of chemistry in the band that the outside world could never witness. (He's telling you you dont know anything about the band or the way the music gets made) In our band, D'arcy is the moral conscience -- it's really hard to do something if D'arcy thinks its fucked." (I would call that influence.)

I will remind you that you have never heard a Smashing Pumpkins without James and Darcy.

P.S. - This is THEPUMPKINS.NET not THECORGAN.NET

I rest my case

I kinda think we're throwing judgement around too early, I mean 1. James might not be in the band but we don't even know the whole official line up yet, 2. Zeitgeist is a good 2-3 months away yet, 3. They haven't even had a show yet.
I'm just saying, maybe we should hold our judgement until we know some more facts.