marydoesnotforget link=topic=1316.msg20223#msg20223 date=1177586010]
Believe link=topic=1316.msg20221#msg20221 date=1177584788]
I'm with you Starla,

Jimmy broke up the band way before any of the later drama - and why do people keep saying Darcy and James made the band break up - EVERYONE knows that Billy decided to break the band up before the Machina tour and it was all his idea. There had always been tension in the band - ALWAYS - usually because of Jimmy's disappearing acts during recording sessions and his uncontollable drug habits. Now Billy and Jimmy have the best chemistry because Jimmy was so happy that Billy gave him a second chance that he would never argue with him on any of the music stuff.

and just for argument sake let's compare

Billy James Darcy = Adore

Billy Jimmy and 3 other musicians = MSOTS

I dont know about anyone else but I liked Adore much better than MSOTS, even with Jimmy's kick ass drumming.


OK...
What was the reason BILLY cited for the band breaking up? James didn't wanna continue.

The Jimmy stuff had NO part in breaking up the band. How long were they together while Jimmy was taking drugs? Ages.

When Jimmy WAS out of the band, did they break up? No.

Although this is impossible to back up either way (unless you're Billy or Jimmy), I would argue that Billy and Jimmy have ALWAYS had the best chemistry in the band, even before "Billy gave him a second chance". Things Butch Vig, Jimmy, and Billy have said all hint at this too.

Lastly, haven't we concluded that comparing SP and Zwan is a bit silly - Zwan deliberately avoided a SP sound.




So ok - Jimmy and Billy weren't there and Zwan never happened.

Your statement about Billy and Jimmy goes against everything Billy has ever said about the bands early years - what would make you think Billy and Jimmy got along better than everyone else...maybe the fact that Jimmy was never there???

This may sound strange but if the band was breaking up because James didn't want to play anymore - why would he have stuck around for the entire Machina tour? Here's what billy actually said at the time he announced the break up -

"We felt that before we even started this album, we had come to the end of our road-emotionally, spiritually, musically," Corgan said during an interview Tuesday on alternative-rock station KROQ-FM in Los Angeles.

Phoning in while on a European tour, Corgan said the split was discussed even before the band started its last album, "Machina/ The Machines of God."

"The way the culture is, it's hard to keep trying to fight the good fight against the Britneys," Corgan said, referring to Britney Spears and other teen pop sensations.

"It is a weight lifted off my shoulders," he said. "I feel like I've been walking around with this weird secret. We brought this thing to what we felt was a really strong conclusion, and it freed us to enjoy it."

Why is there always this comparison to zwan, zwan was just a bit of light entertainment and fun, it wasnt suposed to be revolutionary. It silly to compare SP at any stage to Zwan.

Its a shame james isnt in, but what can you do?

Believe link=topic=1316.msg20221#msg20221 date=1177584788]
I'm with you Starla,

Jimmy broke up the band way before any of the later drama - and why do people keep saying Darcy and James made the band break up - EVERYONE knows that Billy decided to break the band up before the Machina tour and it was all his idea. There had always been tension in the band - ALWAYS - usually because of Jimmy's disappearing acts during recording sessions and his uncontollable drug habits. Now Billy and Jimmy have the best chemistry because Jimmy was so happy that Billy gave him a second chance that he would never argue with him on any of the music stuff.

and just for argument sake let's compare

Billy James Darcy = Adore

Billy Jimmy and 3 other musicians = MSOTS

I dont know about anyone else but I liked Adore much better than MSOTS, even with Jimmy's kick ass drumming.


It was all Billy's idea to break up the band? What do you base this on? According to the band, it was a mutual decision among the members. If Jimmy didn't want to be in the band, he wouldn't have even bothered coming back. D'arcy couldn't even stick around to the end. Once James was done, he left and never looked back.

The Billy + Jimmy = Zwan routine is becoming trite and lame. It's like you're using these people in a math equation and everytime you put them together they can only produce one kind of sound.

I agree, the intentions are completely different, if you add that into the 'equation' then you get something completely different. Plus, i dont think billy had the same control over Zwan that he did with SP, i could be wrong, but just judging from interviews and behind the scenes footage it seems like matt sweeny has just as much say in the direction of the band.

In my comments about Zwan I was basically just backing up what Starla said earlier in this thread...(Gosh - nobody jumped down her throat)

Ok - so I've said ZWAN never happened and Billy and Jimmy were never there - but if Zwan was a success would anyone be trying to forget they existed?

I think on the contrary everyone would say "Look they didnt need Darcy and James - just look at Zwan"

Also - I never said that these two people could only produce one type of music BUT SP did all types of music and those musicians mad it work...whatever it is Zwan was attempting to do - did not. We'll blame Matt Sweeney and Paz for that though.

I'm not so close minded that I cant see billy and jimmy making good music..they totally can..the topic of the thread was which too would you rather..so thats all. I just used my past judgements to make a decision.

by the way thanks for defending me believe

To The Death My Love!

Who said Zwan failed? I think they pretty much suceeded in what tehy wanted to do, sure they had a messy break up but i dont think MSOTS could have been much better for its intentions. Ill probly get flamed for saying that but i dont care. Oh wait, this isnt netphoria its all good

Oh yeah? Well, MEH!!!
That's what I think!!!
I'm going to hate you for having different opinions than me!

(As a Netphorian would say... )

I would probly say that too, because im increadibly arrogant when it comes to music, but at least i can admit it

jimmys the best at what he does, compared to the others

I agree, he is up there with the best drummers of all time

dougydarkangel link=topic=1316.msg20353#msg20353 date=1177734360]
Who said Zwan failed? I think they pretty much suceeded in what tehy wanted to do, sure they had a messy break up but i dont think MSOTS could have been much better for its intentions. Ill probly get flamed for saying that but i dont care. Oh wait, this isnt netphoria its all good


I call Zwan a failure because while I think some people enjoyed some of the music they produced - I dont believe that the over all goal of the band was to make one album, argue, and break up over sex scandals and acusations drug use. (At least not when you present yourself as asome kind of christian based "thing." Add that to the fact that they weren't that popular, never sold a lot of records, and the man that started the whole thing wishes it never happened. Ususally these are not the marks of suxxess.

Jimmy's always given this cool jazz groove. But I also love the songs that James writes.

But when I imagine Bullet with Butterfly Wings without Jimmy's groove I don't think it would be half as good.

I would like to pose the question that if you don't "approve" of who's in the line-up, will that mean that your view of The Pumpkins will be a lesser one? Will everybody stop saying that MSOTS was a Pumpkins album and stop speculating that without certain members, it automatically equals bad. And stop with the blame game, what happened happened and it won't change. Let go of your damn sentimentality just for a little while at least and let the new Pumpkins do their thing. Then you can get back to bitching. I am bored to death of this.

RJK link=topic=1316.msg20506#msg20506 date=1178001739]
I would like to pose the question that if you don't "approve" of who's in the line-up, will that mean that your view of The Pumpkins will be a lesser one?

Yes, now let me pose the same question to you and let's see if you can answer honestly.

If they announced the new pumpkins line up and it was:

Billy
Jimmy
J.C. Carter
and Ashlee Simpson

Would your view of the Smashing Pumpkins change?


Since when do "FANS" not care who's in the band?

Believe link=topic=1316.msg20522#msg20522 date=1178018973]
RJK link=topic=1316.msg20506#msg20506 date=1178001739]
I would like to pose the question that if you don't "approve" of who's in the line-up, will that mean that your view of The Pumpkins will be a lesser one?

Yes, now let me pose the same question to you and let's see if you can answer honestly.

If they announced the new pumpkins line up and it was:

Billy
Jimmy
J.C. Carter
and Ashlee Simpson

Would your view of the Smashing Pumpkins change?


Since when do "FANS" not care who's in the band?


Nice move! Twisted my arm! I guess it would depend on their output.

It's just that your acting like it's a smear campaign against the new members, and that anybody who likes them is committing "sacralig". It's not your decision, and even if all the fans felt this way, it would not change it. I'm not anti James or Darcy, but at least they are not doing a Pink Floyd where Roger Waters and Dave Gilmour are playing the majority of Pink Floyd songs at their solo concerts.

Murder McMurderson link=topic=1316.msg20231#msg20231 date=1177591357]
The Billy + Jimmy = Zwan routine is becoming trite and lame. It's like you're using these people in a math equation and everytime you put them together they can only produce one kind of sound.


Agreed.

If you think that the new line-up isn't the Pumpkins, then they're not the Pumpkins to you, and you don't have to listen to them. Treat them like some other band if they're not the Pumpkins to you, nobody is forcing you to like them. Treat them like another Billy Jimmy collaboration, I don't care, just stop saying that they're going to be automatically bad when you haven't heard the album. You might be pleasantly surprised when it comes out for all you know.

Complaining about who broke up the band and how the bands not what it should be is counterproductive and un-supportive. "Smashing Pumpkins" are only words, change them if you like.

Again, nice move!