Believe link=topic=1268.msg29666#msg29666 date=1184249161]
Commercially both those albums sold over a million copies which is success in my eyes. Failure would be if your were Platinum your whole career and then relesed several projects that failed to sell even half that amount.


Machina only sold half a million while all the other albums have sold over a million.

so let me clear it up, believe

you want people to boycot the new billy corgan/jimmy chamberlin cd and tour, or just accept that its not the smashing pumpkins????

what is your problem Believe? Did you make all this fuss when Melissa replaced D'arcy? probably not.

At the end of the day some of the greatest bands of all time have had a line-up change. To me The Smashing Pumpkins is more than just the members of the band, its about a lot more than that.

I would love to see James back as much as anyone but i'm sure there are good personal reasons why he isn't.

I'm starting to wonder if you are still a Pumpkins fan at all.

Believe link=topic=1268.msg29665#msg29665 date=1184247973]
pierowmaniac link=topic=1268.msg29572#msg29572 date=1184177338]
Im Bamboozled now?

Are Metallica not Metallica then because Clif Burton Died and Dave Mustain kicked Hetfields Dog?
Are The Red Hot Chili Peppers Not the Red Hot Chili Peppers because they lost Hillel Slovak and replaced Cliff Martinez?
Was Faith No More crap when they took on Mike Patton to sing?
Was Nirvana better before they got Dave Grohl on Drums?

My point being
Sometimes a bands line up changes for the better.
Whatever the circumstances, be it Death, Rubbish musician/singer being fired, disagrement, personal/family or other reasons



YEs - thats called a line-up change - not a reunion. We are not talking about replacing someone (as they did with MADM) we are talking about Billy ending the band for his own reasons and then trying to do other stuff that didnt work and then going "back to the well" but not bothering to to even do that right - he just hand-picks a couple of puppets and feeds us some half-assed rendition of the pumpkins, and the so-called true SP fans just eating it up like their little birds and Billy brought a bag of worms to the nest.

"Oh, anything you bring us Billy - we'll eat it, without even checking to see if it's food."


It's more than a little condescending to assume that anyone who actually likes this record and this version of the Pumpkins is just either a kiss-ass or mindless. Just because you have a problem with it, doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is a sycophant or too stupid to think for themselves and make up their own mind about whether or not they like what they're hearing. I've seen this attitude a lot lately from people who have issues with this record or this version of the Pumpkins, and it really pisses me off.

Well, Believe I still think Billy is the Smashing Pumpkins...

I'm trying to say that if someone doesn't like this record and doesn't like this version of the Pumpkins, and doesn't think it's the "real" Pumpkins, that's their opinion and that's fine.

But I don't like it when people who have this opinion then say that anyone who doesn't feel the same way is wrong, or is either too stupid to realize "the truth", or can't think for themselves so they just accept whatever Billy says or puts out without thinking about it.
I think it's rude and acting as if they're better than the people who say they do like this record and this version of the Pumpkins.

melabonbon link=topic=1268.msg29702#msg29702 date=1184273914]
I'm trying to say that if someone doesn't like this record and doesn't like this version of the Pumpkins, and doesn't think it's the "real" Pumpkins, that's their opinion and that's fine.

But I don't like it when people who have this opinion then say that anyone who doesn't feel the same way is wrong, or is either too stupid to realize "the truth", or can't think for themselves so they just accept whatever Billy says or puts out without thinking about it.
I think it's rude and acting as if they're better than the people who say they do like this record and this version of the Pumpkins.


I agree!

the lyrics are what bother me on this album, not what there about but, there just not up to par with previous pumpkin records

and i would have really enjoyed that siamese dream/mcis sound, boy would the days be back

i dont get that special feeling on this album like i do with all the others.

melabonbon link=topic=1268.msg29702#msg29702 date=1184273914]
I'm trying to say that if someone doesn't like this record and doesn't like this version of the Pumpkins, and doesn't think it's the "real" Pumpkins, that's their opinion and that's fine.

But I don't like it when people who have this opinion then say that anyone who doesn't feel the same way is wrong, or is either too stupid to realize "the truth", or can't think for themselves so they just accept whatever Billy says or puts out without thinking about it.
I think it's rude and acting as if they're better than the people who say they do like this record and this version of the Pumpkins.


I'm sorry Melabonbon...let me clear this up. I don't have a problem with anyone who likes the album because they like it.
My comments are directed at the people who say things like "Billy made it, Billy thinks it's great so I must love it or something's wrong with me or - whatever Billy does he is the pumpkins and he will never ever make a mistake or lie to us" The fact is the man has lied to us.

If you listened to the album and it blows u away - I think u should rock out and enjoy it. Because I have my opinion (and I choose to voice it) doesn't mean I want anyone to think like me...have your own opinion. Why does everyone have so much of a problem with the fact that some people don't like it?

Contrary to what most of you think there are those who feel the same way as me but just won't say it here because noone here can seem to handle anyone having an opinion other than "ZEITGEIST ROCKS!."


The Real SP will always be my favorite band - they made some of the most beautiful music i've ever heard. It's too late for anyone ruin that.

Use the Pink Floyd analogy: Waters got all the credit on writing, but if you listen to his solo work vs A Momentary Lapse.. or Division Bell it's obvious the other 3 members of the band made significan contributions to the Pink Floyd SOUND. Contrast that to the pumpkins...It's been said that Billy and Jimmy wrote basically everything, it's even been said that they did Siamese Dream without Iha and D'arcy. Zeitgeist holds up in sound with SD & MCIS, so you have to wonder what the contributions of Iha and D'arcy really were all along. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to think the pumpkins were really a foursome, but Zeitgeist puts some tough questions out there....

Believe link=topic=1268.msg29765#msg29765 date=1184332731]
Contrary to what most of you think there are those who feel the same way as me but just won't say it here because noone here can seem to handle anyone having an opinion other than "ZEITGEIST ROCKS!."


What? Have you read the threads, or are you just reading what you want to read? The reaction to Zeitgeist on this forum has been remarkably mixed. I don't see any cheerleaders here.

ehh, well Ill go ahead and lead the cheer:

"ZEIGEIST ROCKS"!

I couldnt help but notice that while listening to it for the 20th time while mowing the lawn yesterday.

I like the album, and not just because its *OMG BILLY REFORMING THE BAND*

It sounds good, I like all but one track on the whole thing, including the bonus tracks. Its good music.

I second that!

I like Zeitgeist, if that makes me a "mindless zombie" i dont care, maybe i am "brave" enough to say i like it. Lighten up JR

it really does seem like a lot of you just love whatever billy does, and his spectrum is so big, i find it hard to believe its coincidence

but im pretty sure no one is that hardcore here

dougydarkangel link=topic=1268.msg29898#msg29898 date=1184430421]
I like Zeitgeist, if that makes me a "mindless zombie" i dont care, maybe i am "brave" enough to say i like it. Lighten up JR


HAHAHAHA Don't be so simple Dougy - I clearly state the people I'm speaking to when I make those comments. If u feel u are being a mindless zombie by not listening to the album from the perspective of a consumer...then maybe u are - that's for u to decide Dougy.

But Dougy really ask yourself...As excited as you were at the thought of an SP reunion...Is there any possible way u could have NOT liked this album??? IF the answer is no than I think it's safe to say I'm the one thinking objectively - not you.

Oh and how hard is it to say Zeitgeist Rocks? THis is ThePumpkins.net...isn't that what you are supposed to say?

Hey - I'll even say it...Zeitgeist Rocks!!! (Just not as hard as any other SP album in history IMO.)