melabonbon link=topic=1927.msg31953#msg31953 date=1186673040]
Shiny Toy Guns, I had the impression that Billy was just trying to not repeat what he'd already done in the past and not get stuck in a rut, making the same sounds over and over. I think that's a healthy thing for any artist to do. Especially for him. The last night at the Fillmore he started playing a new song and then messed up the fingering and stopped and said something like "Why do I have to write such complicated songs?" and this guy in the audience yelled out "Because that's who you are, Billy!"
And I think that's true. I think he'd get bored if it were too easy for him, if he didn't try to fight against his tendencies to do certain kinds of songs he's already done. Nothing wrong with an artist having the occassional identity crisis. They can learn a lot about themselves that way, both as an artist and as a person.



Hey, (It's Believe), I'm all for an artist exploring himself musically, but to just copy someone else's music because you don't think yours is good enough just sucks. I didn't hear Billy say he was exploring new territory - I heard him mention about 7 or 8 bands that certain songs were meant to sound like. Why? Why are u copying other people's work. I thought that Adore was a truly innovative album because Billy WAS exploring new frontiers of creating music - this is not the same case. It seems here he just wanted the songs to rock and so he just copied stuff he thought rocked.
And just because a band doesn't completely abandon their sound doesn't mean they can't grow. I use U2 as an example because they have been around for decades and are still a very successful rock band (that rocks). Anyway, I saw an interview when they released their last album and they were talking about being faced with the same dilemma. Basically, they were trashng songs that sounded like U2 but what they ended up with were songs that sounded like other poeple. In the end they decided not to fight themsleves but rather to carry the sound they originated into the future by upgrading and improving on it - after all - what's worng with U2's sound? It's great! - and they are the only one's who can give it to us.

My whole point is: why try not to be the Pumpkins if you are the Pumpkins?

(IMO)
I think Billy really wanted to start a new band but he knew it wouldn't be too successful with his string of failed efforts so he re-hashed the name but truly had no intentions of honoring the sound. Not a bad buisness move considering most people would come to the concerts just to hear the old songs played. I guess either way u slice it, Billy is a Genius.

again, i agree with you believe (like when billy decided to go under a subsidiary of virgin records for the first album, just for indie cred, genius move #1) the whole zeitgeist album was just other peoples music, uncreatively put together, it was definately just a commercial album, made to have fun being played live

Believe link=topic=1927.msg32031#msg32031 date=1186752313]
I'm all for an artist exploring himself musically, but to just copy someone else's music because you don't think yours is good enough just sucks. I didn't hear Billy say he was exploring new territory - I heard him mention about 7 or 8 bands that certain songs were meant to sound like. Why? Why are u copying other people's work.

It wasnt even close to copying other bands work, not even close. He was merely paying respects to them in a musical sence. Bleeding the Orchid doesnt sound anything like Alice in Chains, yet it is a homage to Layne. Tarantula doesnt sound a great deal like the scorpions, yet it is paying respect to them also.
There is a big difference between paying repsects and photocopying.

Believe link=topic=1927.msg32031#msg32031 date=1186752313]
Hey, (It's Believe), I'm all for an artist exploring himself musically, but to just copy someone else's music because you don't think yours is good enough just sucks. I didn't hear Billy say he was exploring new territory - I heard him mention about 7 or 8 bands that certain songs were meant to sound like. Why? Why are u copying other people's work. I thought that Adore was a truly innovative album because Billy WAS exploring new frontiers of creating music - this is not the same case. It seems here he just wanted the songs to rock and so he just copied stuff he thought rocked.
And just because a band doesn't completely abandon their sound doesn't mean they can't grow. I use U2 as an example because they have been around for decades and are still a very successful rock band (that rocks). Anyway, I saw an interview when they released their last album and they were talking about being faced with the same dilemma. Basically, they were trashng songs that sounded like U2 but what they ended up with were songs that sounded like other poeple. In the end they decided not to fight themsleves but rather to carry the sound they originated into the future by upgrading and improving on it - after all - what's worng with U2's sound? It's great! - and they are the only one's who can give it to us.

My whole point is: why try not to be the Pumpkins if you are the Pumpkins?

(IMO)
I think Billy really wanted to start a new band but he knew it wouldn't be too successful with his string of failed efforts so he re-hashed the name but truly had no intentions of honoring the sound. Not a bad buisness move considering most people would come to the concerts just to hear the old songs played. I guess either way u slice it, Billy is a Genius.


Sorry Believe, I got distracted by your Shiny Toy Guns avatar...

Maybe I have to go back and watch the video again, but I didn't hear him saying he was trying to copy these bands he loved instead of sounding like Pumpkins. I had the same impression Dougy did to him paying his respects and recognizing their influence, trying to take certain aspects of different things other people had done and making new songs out of them.
The record still sounds like Pumpkins to me, but not like when you listen to a later T.Rex album and feel like you just bought the same record you already had.
It's hard for me to respond to your use of U2 as an example because I don't like their music so I don't know enough about what they have and haven't done to compare them to what Billy is doing and has done.

I have a completely different idea of why Billy went back to SP, instead of doing a new band or another solo effort, but I've already rambled on enough about it in another thread, and I think I've rambled on enough in this one.

robertedge link=topic=1927.msg31949#msg31949 date=1186669968]
this is sooooo good!!! i wish they did this for the mellon collie album....or did they???


They didn't do it for MCIS but they did do it for The Aeroplane Flies High! Pretty fascinating if you can find it online still.

Trillian link=topic=1927.msg32129#msg32129 date=1186860229]
robertedge link=topic=1927.msg31949#msg31949 date=1186669968]
this is sooooo good!!! i wish they did this for the mellon collie album....or did they???


They didn't do it for MCIS but they did do it for The Aeroplane Flies High! Pretty fascinating if you can find it online still.


someone should really find that cuz I just tried for a while and can't

I've commented on this subject before, but my point is still valid, and so i'll make it again.
It is almost impossible for an artist to separate themselves from their influences, and i think that all billy did on this album is to not try to hide those influences as much, but rather, to bring them out into the open. Its interesting the part he says about Alice In Chains; back in the day he didn't really sit down and appreciate any of the bands he viewed as "competition", but now 20+ years later, he can actually allow himself to be influenced by bands like Alice. That's how songs like Bleeding the Orchid, and Tarantula are made. Seriously, sit down and REALLY think about any band within the last 20 years that has really done anything musically without being influenced by some other band that "did it first"

Trillian link=topic=1927.msg32129#msg32129 date=1186860229]
robertedge link=topic=1927.msg31949#msg31949 date=1186669968]
this is sooooo good!!! i wish they did this for the mellon collie album....or did they???


They didn't do it for MCIS but they did do it for The Aeroplane Flies High! Pretty fascinating if you can find it online still.


are we talking bout the box set or the song???

Believe link=topic=1927.msg32031#msg32031 date=1186752313]
melabonbon link=topic=1927.msg31953#msg31953 date=1186673040]
Shiny Toy Guns, I had the impression that Billy was just trying to not repeat what he'd already done in the past and not get stuck in a rut, making the same sounds over and over. I think that's a healthy thing for any artist to do. Especially for him. The last night at the Fillmore he started playing a new song and then messed up the fingering and stopped and said something like "Why do I have to write such complicated songs?" and this guy in the audience yelled out "Because that's who you are, Billy!"
And I think that's true. I think he'd get bored if it were too easy for him, if he didn't try to fight against his tendencies to do certain kinds of songs he's already done. Nothing wrong with an artist having the occassional identity crisis. They can learn a lot about themselves that way, both as an artist and as a person.



Hey, (It's Believe), I'm all for an artist exploring himself musically, but to just copy someone else's music because you don't think yours is good enough just sucks. I didn't hear Billy say he was exploring new territory - I heard him mention about 7 or 8 bands that certain songs were meant to sound like. Why? Why are u copying other people's work. I thought that Adore was a truly innovative album because Billy WAS exploring new frontiers of creating music - this is not the same case. It seems here he just wanted the songs to rock and so he just copied stuff he thought rocked.
And just because a band doesn't completely abandon their sound doesn't mean they can't grow. I use U2 as an example because they have been around for decades and are still a very successful rock band (that rocks). Anyway, I saw an interview when they released their last album and they were talking about being faced with the same dilemma. Basically, they were trashng songs that sounded like U2 but what they ended up with were songs that sounded like other poeple. In the end they decided not to fight themsleves but rather to carry the sound they originated into the future by upgrading and improving on it - after all - what's worng with U2's sound? It's great! - and they are the only one's who can give it to us.

My whole point is: why try not to be the Pumpkins if you are the Pumpkins?

(IMO)
I think Billy really wanted to start a new band but he knew it wouldn't be too successful with his string of failed efforts so he re-hashed the name but truly had no intentions of honoring the sound. Not a bad buisness move considering most people would come to the concerts just to hear the old songs played. I guess either way u slice it, Billy is a Genius.



Every Pumpkins album sounds different, you can't listen to Gish then listen to Adore and say they sound the same. That's what I love about the Pumpkins. They are constantly changing. Zeitgeist, as Dougy said, has tributes and pays homage to some bands that are an influence on Billy. The Smashing Pumpkins are not ripping off other bands. There are very few, if any, bands that you can listen to without saying "this album sounds like [insert band name here]." But the Pumpkins' sound changes from album to album, and I think that makes it hard to define what their sound really is. Zeitgeist sounds nothing like what they've previously done, and I guarantee the next album they produce will sound completely different.

again with the zeitgeist comments........cant we just stop judging it!!!! quit your whining!

superchrist link=topic=1927.msg31874#msg31874 date=1186590596]
why does billy sometimes play around left-handed? like i have seen him writing with his left hand, and then in a picture in that interview he was playing guitar left-handed. anyone know why?


Billy's ambidextrous (uses both hands to do things), would have thought you guys would have known that !

I haven't watched all of the video. Watched up to United States but it is a good interview even if its basically just telling em what I got from the radio interview.

Zer0 link=topic=1927.msg32167#msg32167 date=1186914143]
Zeitgeist sounds nothing like what they've previously done, and I guarantee the next album they produce will sound completely different.


Right - so why try so hard to NOT sound like the Pumpkins but at the same time you want to "pay homage" to other bands with your music? I guess I'm waiting for the pumpkins to realize that the pumpkins were a great band and maybe someone should "pay homage" to their sound. It doesn't make sense how some of you can say - OH they want to be brand new - they dont want to sound the same...then go on to say oh - they are paying homage??? If they are paying homage to old bands how is that new? Anyways if I want to hear someone pay homage to Alice in Chains I'll go see an Alice in Chains cover band...I dont need to go buy the new pumpkins album just so that billy can remind me how great Alice in Chains was...what if i didn't like Alice in Chains? What If i liked the pumpkins? Why doesn't Billy want to remind us how great the pumpkins were? I miss the Billy taht ignored the competition and did his own thing - he was dangerous back then. He's too much of a fan now to be an artist. (IMO)


Oh, it's also funny how people come to a site called thepumpkins.net and expect for people NOT to talk about Zeitgeist. HAHAHAHAHA!

I'm not sure the two things are mutually exclusive - sounding like the Pumpkins and paying homage to your influences. You could already hear the Pumpkins' influences on past records.
I sincerely doubt that the Pumpkins don't realize they were and ARE a great band who influenced lots of other bands. From what I've gathered from interviews over the years, Billy has never ignored what the competition was doing. Maybe like he says now, he didn't appreciate it at the time because everything was so competitive, but I can't see him actually flat out not being aware of what they were doing.

robertedge link=topic=1927.msg32148#msg32148 date=1186887642]
Trillian link=topic=1927.msg32129#msg32129 date=1186860229]
robertedge link=topic=1927.msg31949#msg31949 date=1186669968]
this is sooooo good!!! i wish they did this for the mellon collie album....or did they???


They didn't do it for MCIS but they did do it for The Aeroplane Flies High! Pretty fascinating if you can find it online still.


are we talking bout the box set or the song???


Boxed set. I found the link: http://blamo.org/newsarchive.php?id=1512

thanx heaps for that trillian!!