well.lets face it, the bass lines arnt that hard.

i admit at first listen i didnt like any 1 track a lot, but now i love the cd as a whole no doubt which i prefer cuz i think songs that are instant hits fade out a lot faster! but i love the album!!

Really good album...but the live shows are so much better! There's more energy, and it seems they're having fun...I can't ask for more! Go Pumpkins!!!!

Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33917#msg33917 date=1189445796]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33773#msg33773 date=1189172277]
Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33736#msg33736 date=1189094295]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33727#msg33727 date=1189082415]
doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)



Mmm...the insincere chumminess of your post is telling me that it was probably just meant to bait Zeitgeist supporters into a foamy-mouthed rant. I'll do my best not to take that bait...

Anyways, now that we're on the topic of the people in Corgan's life that affect his music, I'll just remind you that you were the one who, in a previous post, shared your woes over the lack of competent production on the new album. Why, then, if Billy Corgan has never done anything but negate the talents of those around him, did you pine for the old days of Butch Vig and Flood? I mean, if they never really made a difference, then...(I've already stated my opinion on the album's production and personnel)

And, as far as Zwan goes, if you for a second thought that MSOTS and Zeitgeist were written and performed in the same spirit, then you are sorely mistaken. There are infinitely many inconsistancies in the "Zwan II" argument...not the least of which being that Zwan was a deliberate departure from the Pumpkins' former sound, while Zeitgeist was a deliberate return to it. With songs like "God & Country" and "Death From Above", you could probably say that Zeitgeist has more in common with TFE than it ever did with MSOTS. The "TFE II" argument, however, is also fatally flawed. Honestly, I shouldn't have to describe my reasoning behind that one.

Thoughts of Zeitgeist now...

Currently appreciating the nuances of "Pomp". =) Such a funny, yet sad song.



Just to be clear - I actually give credit to the OTHER people involved in the projects. YOu and people like u are the ones who say Billy IS The pumpkins or Billy was Zwan...since when does one person make up any band???? I totally see SP being seperate from Zwan for the fact that the people in the band were not the same - thats why this band could never be the Pumpkins because the chemistry will never be the same between Billy, Jeff, Ginger, and Jimmy as it was with Billy, Jimmy, D'arcy and James - how could it be???

ZWAN-
There were 5 musicians in Zwan and for you to make the case that Billy basically uses musicians as his puppets I think applies now - but I actually believe he has let the other musicians he's worked with influence his other projects in the past...otherwise why work with them????? He could have easily done the Billy and Jimmy show years ago when he opted to do the Zwan thing. IF your argument is that the only difference between these bands is the way Billy decides to play his songs it still means that everything Billy has ever done have basically been Billy solo projects. IMO that's incorrect, even Billy has stated how much James and Darcy influenced original pumpkins musical direction.

"There's a lot of chemistry in the band that the outside world could never witness. In our band, D'arcy is the moral conscience -- it's really hard to do something if D'arcy thinks its fucked."


Billy needs a filter whether it's D'arcy or Flood or Butch. Zeitgeist is just a prime example why - at least thats the impression I get when I hear it.


What are you doing, arguing against your own point? You're the one that said Billy ignores the input of others and commandeers any project he's involved in...I was simply brining to light the inconsistancies in your argument by referencing your comments on the Pumpkins' past producers. Read between the lines, please...it's never been my argument that Billy could do a Pumpkins' album alone. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he needs James and D'arcy for the reunion. You see?

Meh - that quote from Billy about D'arcy. For what it's worth, D'arcy was strongly against the new sound of Adore, yet most fans agree it was a resounding success - me included. My point? She wasn't nearly as infallible a filter as you're making her out to be. Honestly, out of all of the members to ever join and leave the group, she was, by far, the most expendable.



Ummmm - did I wake up in bizarro world - WHEN did I make these statements you're talking about??? All i did was agree with what someone else said about Zeitgeist. I do feel this album was like masturbation for Billy. I never said Billy was the only input on any of the past SP projects - that's been my whole point - HOW CAN THIS BE AN SP PROJECT WITH JUST BILLY???????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's the supporters of Zeitgeist who say all we need is Billy because he IS the pumpkins.

C'mon JZ - u are fighting too hard here to not know what your fighting for. Keep up with me...

I DONT LIKE ZEITGEIST - I FEEL BILLY NEEDS HELP - I FEEL SP IS A BAND AND NOT A ONE MAN SHOW.

Now - we can finally move past that....

"Most fans agree Adore was a resounding success??" ummm I love Adore - BUT After Adore's release wasn't it Billy who felt he had to bitch out his own fans for not supporting him...LOL. Maybe darcy was more in tune with the audience than Billy at that time.

But hey JZ - no arguments - Zeitgeist isn't that good - all due to Billy feeling as if he could do a pumpkins album alone.

JUST IN MY OPINION FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




SO - OKOKOK....

THe same 3 people keep responding to my comments negatively and I understand - YOU LOVE ZEITGEIST! - and that's fine!!!

Listen to it - Love it - Make Love to it - Have little mediocre babies and Live your life to the fullest!!!!

But i love SP too much to support Billy flying them into the ground for a few bucks and a few more swallows of fame.






.......Waiting for the zeitgeist supporters to chime in.......


C'mon...YOU know YOU WANT 2!!!

ill be the first to chime in. i will make love to zeitgeist because it is a great album. enough said.

i too love zeitgeist, I think it is a great record, despite the absence of darcy and james. We understand you dont like Zeitgeist, Believe, but the constant arguing until your blue in the face with pretty much everyone on here is getting you no where. Kind of like you said Shiny Toy Guns is the best band playing today, I think they suck ass, I could debate the merits of that all day, but in the end, you arent going to care what I said, and I wont care what you said, its pointless.

doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33976#msg33976 date=1189526549]
ill be the first to chime in. i will make love to zeitgeist because it is a great album. enough said.

i will second that comment!!!

Hello All!
I haven't posted in sooo long!
I've listened to Zeitgeist a few times now, and while I liked it at first, I like it more and more the more I listen.
I think "Bring the Light" is my favorite song, but that could change tomorrow!

TeacupHeart link=topic=1915.msg33999#msg33999 date=1189566826]
Hello All!
I haven't posted in sooo long!
I've listened to Zeitgeist a few times now, and while I liked it at first, I like it more and more the more I listen.
I think "Bring the Light" is my favorite song, but that could change tomorrow!

i will second that comment too!!! that song rocks, harmonised orgasmic solo!!! oh yeah

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33966#msg33966 date=1189516557]
Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33917#msg33917 date=1189445796]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33773#msg33773 date=1189172277]
Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33736#msg33736 date=1189094295]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33727#msg33727 date=1189082415]
doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)



Mmm...the insincere chumminess of your post is telling me that it was probably just meant to bait Zeitgeist supporters into a foamy-mouthed rant. I'll do my best not to take that bait...

Anyways, now that we're on the topic of the people in Corgan's life that affect his music, I'll just remind you that you were the one who, in a previous post, shared your woes over the lack of competent production on the new album. Why, then, if Billy Corgan has never done anything but negate the talents of those around him, did you pine for the old days of Butch Vig and Flood? I mean, if they never really made a difference, then...(I've already stated my opinion on the album's production and personnel)

And, as far as Zwan goes, if you for a second thought that MSOTS and Zeitgeist were written and performed in the same spirit, then you are sorely mistaken. There are infinitely many inconsistancies in the "Zwan II" argument...not the least of which being that Zwan was a deliberate departure from the Pumpkins' former sound, while Zeitgeist was a deliberate return to it. With songs like "God & Country" and "Death From Above", you could probably say that Zeitgeist has more in common with TFE than it ever did with MSOTS. The "TFE II" argument, however, is also fatally flawed. Honestly, I shouldn't have to describe my reasoning behind that one.

Thoughts of Zeitgeist now...

Currently appreciating the nuances of "Pomp". =) Such a funny, yet sad song.



Just to be clear - I actually give credit to the OTHER people involved in the projects. YOu and people like u are the ones who say Billy IS The pumpkins or Billy was Zwan...since when does one person make up any band???? I totally see SP being seperate from Zwan for the fact that the people in the band were not the same - thats why this band could never be the Pumpkins because the chemistry will never be the same between Billy, Jeff, Ginger, and Jimmy as it was with Billy, Jimmy, D'arcy and James - how could it be???

ZWAN-
There were 5 musicians in Zwan and for you to make the case that Billy basically uses musicians as his puppets I think applies now - but I actually believe he has let the other musicians he's worked with influence his other projects in the past...otherwise why work with them????? He could have easily done the Billy and Jimmy show years ago when he opted to do the Zwan thing. IF your argument is that the only difference between these bands is the way Billy decides to play his songs it still means that everything Billy has ever done have basically been Billy solo projects. IMO that's incorrect, even Billy has stated how much James and Darcy influenced original pumpkins musical direction.

"There's a lot of chemistry in the band that the outside world could never witness. In our band, D'arcy is the moral conscience -- it's really hard to do something if D'arcy thinks its fucked."


Billy needs a filter whether it's D'arcy or Flood or Butch. Zeitgeist is just a prime example why - at least thats the impression I get when I hear it.


What are you doing, arguing against your own point? You're the one that said Billy ignores the input of others and commandeers any project he's involved in...I was simply brining to light the inconsistancies in your argument by referencing your comments on the Pumpkins' past producers. Read between the lines, please...it's never been my argument that Billy could do a Pumpkins' album alone. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he needs James and D'arcy for the reunion. You see?

Meh - that quote from Billy about D'arcy. For what it's worth, D'arcy was strongly against the new sound of Adore, yet most fans agree it was a resounding success - me included. My point? She wasn't nearly as infallible a filter as you're making her out to be. Honestly, out of all of the members to ever join and leave the group, she was, by far, the most expendable.



Ummmm - did I wake up in bizarro world - WHEN did I make these statements you're talking about??? All i did was agree with what someone else said about Zeitgeist. I do feel this album was like masturbation for Billy. I never said Billy was the only input on any of the past SP projects - that's been my whole point - HOW CAN THIS BE AN SP PROJECT WITH JUST BILLY???????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's the supporters of Zeitgeist who say all we need is Billy because he IS the pumpkins.

C'mon JZ - u are fighting too hard here to not know what your fighting for. Keep up with me...

I DONT LIKE ZEITGEIST - I FEEL BILLY NEEDS HELP - I FEEL SP IS A BAND AND NOT A ONE MAN SHOW.

Now - we can finally move past that....

"Most fans agree Adore was a resounding success??" ummm I love Adore - BUT After Adore's release wasn't it Billy who felt he had to bitch out his own fans for not supporting him...I am laughing out loud.. Maybe darcy was more in tune with the audience than Billy at that time.

But hey JZ - no arguments - Zeitgeist isn't that good - all due to Billy feeling as if he could do a pumpkins album alone.

JUST IN MY OPINION FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




SO - OKOKOK....

THe same 3 people keep responding to my comments negatively and I understand - YOU LOVE ZEITGEIST! - and that's fine!!!

Listen to it - Love it - Make Love to it - Have little mediocre babies and Live your life to the fullest!!!!

But i love SP too much to support Billy flying them into the ground for a few bucks and a few more swallows of fame.






.......Waiting for the zeitgeist supporters to chime in.......


C'mon...YOU know YOU WANT 2!!!

Your arguments are becoming progressively more disjointed with every post, and, I fear that should I continue this fiasco of a debate, you're going to be virtually unintelligible in 4 or 5 post's time.

I thank you for the advice - I will listen to Zeitgeist, and love it, and delight in the fact that the so-called "Zeitgeist lovers" are in the overwhelming majority on this forum. What can I say? Numbers speak louder than your opinion, Believe.

Meh - I abdicate! I've said all I need to say, and most people agree with me. I invite you, Believe, to practice what you preach and don't listen[/i] to Zeitgeist, don't love it...and don't let us be any the wiser, okay?

haha,right on jz

What'd I miss? Believe doesn't like the Z-album?
Awww, why not?
I think it's pretty great =P
I don't think we should bag on people who dislike it. Just as long as the reason they don't like it isn't James and Darcy/Melissa being there.