i know this discussion is so lame and old but recently i went through billy's blog-entries again. In some parts of his confessions he writes about d'arcy and james in a sort of very negative way and in one special entry he's about "i protected the people i love and i still love them but now it's time for the truth blablabla" (not word by word) and he says, that

THE SMASHING PUMPKINS BROKE UP BECAUSE OF JAMES IHA.

wtf? he mentions that he never wanted to break up with the pumpkins. he wanted to go on forever (well, which he NOW intends to do). james is a bad guy blablablabla.

there are all rumours about why they broke up and the biggest dark cloud is all over why d'arcy left the band:

so i'm really confused. there weren't any official explanations, right? d'arcy left in september 1999 after some recordings of MACHINA (i heard that she DID NOT finish the record, just half of it - but we know that billy sometimes recorded the bass because he could do it in less takes) and 1 year later, THEY BROKE UP.

so billy's saying that james quit the band and so they broke up. i guess james wasn't that happy again - it's obvious and we don't have to debate that. did he feel so bad because d'arcy left? in an interview about how they found melissa and how it is to have a new bassist, james sounded funny and relieved (wtf???)

so now, in other billy corgan-blogs you can read that he and d'arcy don't talk to each other anymore (i guess since her leaving the band) and he mentions THAT THEY BOTH KNOW WHY. he even mentions her drug abuse and something like that. and then he's sad that james didn't say goodbye after the last metro show in chicago.

i don't get it. i guess d'arcy left because she had enough. i guess that billy is a real asshole (always been) but after all the success and MCIS (which WAS the peak of their success and from then on made them fall into pieces) d'arcy only had energy for one more album. and it was ADORE. and i don't know if she liked it. so... the same with james. after MCIS he had enough. they talked about "rock music in its known way is dead" and "you have to put more electronic things in the music"... okay. but was ADORE WHAT HE WANTED? i don't think so. billy once said that ADORE was the album that "let the band fall apart". that's it. that was the falldown of the band. don't get me wrong - i like ADORE and i dig the sound.

and now... after all these years of billy trying to do something right in his life, he re-united the pumpkins with jimmy (jimmy is like a nice to have dog) and starts over again. i don't know... i loved d'arcy and james. i don't know how i feel about the new pumpkins.

well, enough said and i close with the question:

WHY SO MANY RUMOURS ABOUT WHY D'ARCY AND JAMES LEFT AND WHY THAT CRYPTIC MESSAGES FROM BILLY? if it's so obvious, just tell us and if it's none of our business stop talking about it like it's a secret

darcy did bass for the whole machina album, except for "age of innocence", which was done by melissa

superchrist wrote:
darcy did bass for the whole machina album, except for "age of innocence", which was done by melissa

Not quite. Age of Innocence was done by Billy.

okay, so she didn't even finish her work on machina. why's that? what the hell happened between them?

come on d'arcy, answer me. i know it's all said and done but some things are more cryptic than cobain's death. was it billy? did billy fire you because he wasn't satisfied with himself?

did any of you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe some things in this world are none of your business? There are probably at least 4 differing stories as to what REALLY happened.... Only those involved know the real truth, and I don't see that any of them are obligated to tell the world if they don't want to. what's done is done...if they're at peace with it and content to not talk about it, that's just fine with me.

Age of Innocence was recorded after the initial Machina sessions and tagged onto the album, possibly as sort of an afterthought.

Machina sessions (Novmber 1998-October 1999) www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=43
Age of Innocence (November 1999) www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=44

...btw Darcy left in September 1999

of course we accept that. but if it's something private and no one wants to talk about it and whatever, why the cryptic messages? why all the secrets and stuff instead of JUST NOT TALKING ABOUT IT. i'm not stalking here, i just found out that there never was an official statement why d'arcy left. and i wonder if there is. that's it. and come one: it's not like someone had died here. a member quit the band. that's a normal thing. but for the fans, an official explanation would've been just fair. don't you think?

chriswolf wrote:
of course we accept that. but if it's something private and no one wants to talk about it and whatever, why the cryptic messages? why all the secrets and stuff instead of JUST NOT TALKING ABOUT IT. i'm not stalking here, i just found out that there never was an official statement why d'arcy left. and i wonder if there is. that's it. and come one: it's not like someone had died here. a member quit the band. that's a normal thing. but for the fans, an official explanation would've been just fair. don't you think?

I don't feel the need for an official explanation. If they want the story to be told, they'll tell it. If not, that's fine with me too.

chriswolf wrote:
and now... after all these years of billy trying to do something right in his life, he re-united the pumpkins with jimmy (jimmy is like a nice to have dog) and starts over again. i don't know... i loved d'arcy and james. i don't know how i feel about the new pumpkins.

WHY SO MANY RUMOURS ABOUT WHY D'ARCY AND JAMES LEFT AND WHY THAT CRYPTIC MESSAGES FROM BILLY?
Calling Jimmy Chamberlin a lapdog...wow. Way to degrade a world-class talent.

Who cares why the first incarnation of the Pumpkins broke up, honestly? Well, I'm sure many people do - me included. A better question might be "What does it matter?"...WHY DID YOU LIKE D'ARCY AND JAMES? For some reason, whenever people are asked that, it's never a question of whether they were able musicians or not.

They were, of course, but people tend to be more concerned with other things, such as the image they lent the band. Or, as in most cases, it's just a matter of "they were there first - they cannot be replaced because they were the originals".

I miss D'arcy and James. I miss D'arcy's disenchanted bass and James' introverted guitar. I respect them both as people and musicians, despite the fact that they left the band.

But, do you know what I don't miss? The bitterness that plagued every Pumpkins performance...practically since day one. Sure, there were lulls in the aggression, but it was always looming over the band like a dark shadow. Watch the "Ode to No One" video from the final Metro Show...look at James' face of disgust as Billy starts in one one of this rants. Does that look like somone who wanted the band to stay together? It's sad, really, it is.

With the latest incarnation of the band, Billy is actually having fun on-stage for the first time since, when? Since late-MCIS? I can't tell you, for sure. Watch him perform Gossamer with Uli Jon Roth...he's like a kid again, don't you think?

I don't know - my opinion is that Billy, as the main creative force behind the Pumpkins, is, in essence, the band unto himself. No matter how D'arcy and James influenced him positively early in the band's career, one cannot deny the hardships that their presence placed upon him later on.

I guess, in the end, it's all a matter of picking favorites.

I only wish James or D'arcy would return if both they and Billy would be willing to forgie and forget. That will not happen.

That's my rant. Done.

Well I would like to know too.

i didn't know age of innocence was recorded later, i knew darcy had left but age of innocence should have been a single. one of the best songs on machina

chriswolf wrote:
some things are more cryptic than cobain's death.

He committed suicide, end of. I hate all the conspiracy.

You obviously realise how often this argument has been brought up but seriously, let it die. It's something that deserves to be dead and buried.

doomsdayclock wrote:
i didn't know age of innocence was recorded later, i knew darcy had left but age of innocence should have been a single. one of the best songs on machina

Ahh yes... I always thought "Age of Innocence" should have been the last single off of Machina instead of "Try Try Try". It would have been awesome...

Murder McMurderson wrote:
superchrist wrote:
darcy did bass for the whole machina album, except for "age of innocence", which was done by melissa

Not quite. Age of Innocence was done by Billy.

My bad... I thought I read somewhere that Melissa did the bass for that song. I knew Billy did bass for "Untitled".

I too wish we had James and D'arcy back. I too would really like to know the whole story. I also agree that arguing amongst ourselves about it probably won't yeild any useful information.

But some people, especially newer fans, might want to talk about it. You can't tell people to stop talking about it. What, since you are tired of hearing it, nobody else should be able to bring it up?

This is why these forums are here. Unless James Iha would for some reason register on this forum and tell us his life story (personally I think his name would be "YeehawIha", us talking about it won't bring any answers. But I don't care, it's fun to talk about it.

Also, Jeffrey. I've always wondered about the Ode to Noone performance. I've always wondered about that face James makes. It is an odd face, but I don't think we can just assume that he's annoyed by Billy's ranting.

Maybe he's just making a rock and roll face.

Rivers Cuomo wrote:
Also, Jeffrey. I've always wondered about the Ode to Noone performance. I've always wondered about that face James makes. It is an odd face, but I don't think we can just assume that he's annoyed by Billy's ranting.

Maybe he's just making a rock and roll face.

Maybe the lights were bothering his eyes?