http://smashingpumpkins.com/news_4693

Thought I'd strike up a conversation here about today's SP.com bit. (As I'm in no mood to carry on a discussion with the esoteric posters there who talk in self-important poetry or barely coherent sentences!)

FACT: In Rainbows is only as good as its method of distribution. The music is probably the laziest Radiohead's ever released. It's still better than a vast majority of other rock bands, but I still think Thom Yorke could blow his nose, record it and loop it over Casio tones and people would still eat it up and consider it genius.

FACT: The Pumpkins did this first, and though this might not be remembered in 2008, back when Machina II did hit the 'Net, it was a huge story. (I wish I could find my review of the record that was published in the Desert Sun Newspaper in 2000, but their archives suck.) Which leads to another fact: The Smashing Pumpkins are the most underrated band, oh, EVER.

FACT: I'm an old curmudgeon and much prefer buying physical CDs to downloading from iTunes (a program I've never used. The only legal d/l client I've used in the past was some awful AOL program with very poor audio quality. Needless to say, I didn't use it for very long.) BUT there's that other middling fact that I've pretty much reached max capacity on where I can put my CDs. D'oh.

FACT: Bands that stream their records a few days before release are brilliant and doing consumers a huge favor.

Discuss!

i agree, but i am really to tired to elaborate.

I really wish people would stop comparing Radiohead to the Pumpkins. There is no comparison whatsoever. I am not dissing Radiohead, but they do not even come close to the Pumpkins artistically. This is my own opinion of course.
But dam, give credit where credit is due. Billy did not just give us a couple songs but the whole dam album of Machina II and then some. Not to mention the artwork too.
No one had ever done this before. When Virgin said they didn't want to release Machina II Billy told them to Fuck Off and gave it to us anyway. No one had done that either.
These were totally different situations all together.
He also gave us the first tracks of the new Zwan material.

I kinda enjoyed In Rainbows. It had some good tracks on it, especially "Reckoner".

I really liked some of In Rainbows. I love 15 Step, Bodysnatchers, Nude, and Videotape the most. But I do agree that it kinda seems like a lazy album for them. Radiohead normally gives us a sound that we have never heard before. But in this case, they took very few risks and gave us sounds we have probably heard elsewhere.

I absolutely love Radiohead. But I will always love the Pumpkins more. Always.

Definitely love the Pumpkins more, but I like Radiohead too. But In Rainbows was definitely a weak album for them though. Its ok, but not that good when you consider there other stuff.

Oh, and I agree with ApathysEcstasy. Billy deserves all the credit when it comes to giving music away. Sure Radiohead gave In Rainbows away for free, but they only had it available that way for a few months and now you have to buy it. It was basically just a big publicity stunt from a band that hadn't released an album in awhile. Billy on the other hand was telling Virgin to stick it with his release and ,unlike In Rainbows, Machina II has always been free to the fans. It wasn't just a ploy for Billy- it was about getting his music to the fans one way or another.

I don't think it was Trillian or Jill's (SP.com writer) intention for this to be a Radiohead vs. SP topic. I think the real question posed here is; what's the future of music and what can we expect from the band?

Anyway...

FACT: Radiohead's album was never "free." It was a "pay what you think the album is worth" marketing scam that still allowed Radiohead to profit. In order to prevent an album leak, they essentially just beat the fans to it and leaked it themselves...but also tried to charge for it. Granted some people chose to pay nothing, after two weeks Radiohead reportedly made something like two million off the downloads. Then six months later released it in stores, so the same people who downloaded the album in the first place (hardcore Radiohead fans) could go buy it again. Yeah...fuck that.

FACT: We've been getting "free" Pumpkins music since the beginning of the band. Machina II was just the icing on the cake. Have you forgotten about all the demo tapes we've been given over the years? Hello, Mashed Potatoes anyone??? This is why I think the Pre-Gish/Gish box set is a slightly silly idea. Although I'm not sure how it will be released just yet, so I'll hold my tongue.

FACT: Music has been free since the beginning of time. Or at least until the money hungry suits figured out a way to profit from it. This has seriously distorted the concept of music as art and is now single handedly destroying the industry. And remember, even the Roman empire fell...

FACT: No one buys albums anymore. Sure the hardcore fans will; but seriously, who else will? I'm a big music fan and the last CD I bought was Zeitgeist. And that was a year ago.

I'm tired of ranting...

I love that. your tired of ranting, so you turn it over to Billy.
i never seen that video before- neat.

*cough* i'm one of those people who paid nothing for In Rainbows

They don't care if you pay nothing, they probably expected it. Bands make so little from albums and the record companies (a.k.a. BASTARDS) make so much from them, that it woudn't make much difference. They would probably get even more money rather than selling it with a label. Which is why Trent Rexnor is going to be a VERY rich man when he gets his paycheck (has he already got it?) after selling roughly three-bazillion-gazillion digital copies of Ghosts I-IV.

And BC is exactly right.

It's not a lazy album, it is definitely a CRUISY album. To appreciate it, you have to LISTEN to it. When I say LISTEN, I mean FORCE yourself to listen to it, carefully. It's not easy to appreciate it if you ignore it or if it's background noise.

Me, I love texture in music. Radiohead put a lot of texture in to their music. The reason why I love Loveless by My Bloody Valentine is because the texture of the album is amazing.

In Rainbows is a lot like that, but VERY MELLOW.

ANYWAY, on a more Pumpkins-related affair, I have often wondered myself why Machina II wasn't such a big deal (apparently was, but I never heard about it) like In Rainbows was.

I'm kind of biased here, but I think that MACHINA II had a much more creative method of distribution than Radiohead or NIN or Coldplay (a.k.a. cheap fake Radiohead clone) have ever done.

MACHINA II was NOT distributed by SP, it was distributed by the hardcore FANS. BC pretty much had the fans do it for him, and they would gladly oblige.

Vinyl transferred to mp3/CD only? There's an innovative idea.

FACT: I use capitals to emphasise words WAY too much.

Geek N.Z. wrote:
FACT: I use capitals to emphasise words WAY too much.

LOL, i noticed

i suppose i could force myself to relisten to In Rainbows. its been a long time since i heard it. who knows, maybe it will grow on me.

i never heard of the whole Machina II thing back then either, but i guess i figure i'm younger and the SP isn't that popular where i live, so i probably wouldn't have. plus i wasn't involved in places like this.

oh, and you really think Coldplay is a "cheap fake Radiohead clone" Geek. i've never considered them to be that. i always saw Coldplay as its own thing mostly. i don't think they sound like Radiohead, but thats just my opinion.

They don't sound like Radiohead, no, but they try their hardest.

Why do I have two of Coldplay's albums?

I don't know...

blueczarina wrote:
i never heard of the whole Machina II thing back then either, but i guess i figure i'm younger and the SP isn't that popular where i live, so i probably wouldn't have. plus i wasn't involved in places like this.

My situation exactly.

I don't even know if our house had the flippin' internet in 2000!!

i don't think there trying to sound like Radiohead and i have all of there albums.

Geek N.Z. wrote:
blueczarina wrote:
i never heard of the whole Machina II thing back then either, but i guess i figure i'm younger and the SP isn't that popular where i live, so i probably wouldn't have. plus i wasn't involved in places like this.

My situation exactly.

I don't even know if our house had the flippin' internet in 2000!!

mine didn't have internet then.

it kind of sucks to be a younger fan. you feel like you missed so much, but yet you were alive when it was all happening.

Sometimes I wish that I could travel back in time to 1991 so I could throw a tantrum in The Warehouse ("MUMMY I WANT IT!" so mum would buy me Gish.

I would be the COOLEST SP fan ever!

I just did the caps thing .... AGAIN..