im talking about how you make up guitar riffs, write lyrics, bass/guitar relations, structure, the whole deal

me: i only jam with another guitarist, so we play the same riff most of the time, with minor lead stuff, which are usually just pentatonic scale related, and solos that have no technicality, I am laughing out loud., and we usually just mutate a riff after a couple bars, till it gets far enough and we go back to the first one, and outros, and thats the song, no lyrics

im pretty sure theres alot of musicians on here, and was just wondering how you guys write music, how the instruments relate, is there any technicality (proper training) in your music, stuff like that

ps. i have no training in music, thats why im wondering

is not like there's a ritual or something, every song is different than the other, in my case, sometimes someone comes to the rehearsal with a very concrete idea of how he wants the song, sometimes i just have a verse or a chorus, or maybe just a harmony, or even a finished song, sometimes i start with a riff i just came off with

i rarely start with the letter, when a song has no lyrics i just sang over it nonesense things, i call that "washawash-ing" ,'cause all i sing is waaaa shhaaaaaa shaa shaa shaaaaaawwaaaaa,and then when i have the structure i come up with the lyrics, my songs usually evolve from a very raw skeleton and very primitive lyrics wich evolve in jamming, but i see no point in just jamming non-sense, i think you must have a concrete idea of what you're looking for, otherwise you might just waste your time in mediocre songs.

i also believe lyrics and singing are the most important parts of the song, no matter how good guitar player you are, you can't overcome a good heartfelt singing/lyric.

i'm the same, in that i don't have "musical training" either but i know the basic and i know what sounds good.
i'm afraid to obtain "musical training", because i'm afriad it might ruin my creative side when i try to write stuff, instead of going by the book, ya just gotta roll with i think.

i've made up riffs, that i feel are pretty good, just by chance, mucking around and what not. dare to be different i say, especially terms of structure, which is what i love about the pumpkins. you'll have your influences.

Whenever I jam with my band, we rarely bring something that we've sat down and put a lot of thought and planning into. Usually the guitarist will come up with a guitar riff, then bass will come up with something similar and I'll just put a drumbeat to it, then we'll make a different part for it, like a chorus or something with a slightly different sound or feel, then we'll run with it like that. Then when we get confident with it, we add more stuff like fills etc.
For me, music is basically what's written first and then lyrics come after, but I do think that lyrics are just as important as the music itself. The sound is what lures you to listening to the song, and the lyrics are what you keep listening to it for.

Well I just come up with a good riff, lay down some drum loops and then the lyrics usually come to me at that point. I don't really lay out a topic to write a song in because that puts me inside a box that limits creativity. After I write a song, I usually look back at the lyrics and they tie together one theme.
It's a good thing sometimes to make your music ironic, for instance: A song with sad/depressing lyrics and really peppy background music. I did this with a few in particular. (Utopia, Gore, and Year 4,000 all on my myspace.www.myspace.com/breakingfacesmusic) I think it's a decent tip, hope that helps... IoI

here's how Abob writes a song

my songs usually start with a chord progression. I think i'm a much better rhythm player than lead so thats probably why. So I get a nice chord progression going and just jam on that for a few days adding or tweaking some things as i see fit, looking for whatever sounds good. Then record the progression and noodle around with some lead stuff. Thats how it works most of the time for me. I rarely have songs starting just from riffs but the times that i do, I just find what key the riff is in and build a decent progression on that. Now from that progression you can start working out vocal melodies, solos, and then even build new riffs around that. some good practice is just playing simple three chord progressions like G, C, D, G until you get the hang of putting things together.

For lyrics the way i get started is taking a real catchy line or something that sounds cool and go from there. My advice would be don't rush or force lyrics just so you can finish a song. I've probably done that a lot and the words end up sounding kind of lame in the end except for the cool bits i started with. As for bass and drums, i don't have that much experience but what i would try is start really basic. Have the bass just play the bass notes of the chord progression and deviate from that if you want. Same for drums, start with something pretty basic and add in fills (crashes, snare riffs, tom toms, etc.) where appropriate. You can also have the drummer play along with the rhythm guitar player. Perfect SP example of that is in Jellybelly. You can really here how Jimmy follows the chords being played, especially in the 2nd verse. I think for drums anyway it really depends on what kind of music it is.

There's really no right way to write a song though. You could start with this killer bass riff and build from there. I think knowing how to build off something is the key factor when writing music. Also, it can take a long time to get in a groove when writing so don't get frustrated.

I don't really use any technique. I just write what sounds/feels good. Although, I'm not very good at it, so don't take my advice.

If you are really having problems on creating lyrics, use the super mega uber gay rhyme finder http://www.rhymezone.com/ :S

I always end up writing really depressing songs. But, yeah i find it just comes naturally from mucking around on my guitar - finding good chord progressions or licks that sound good. from there lyrics seem to fit quite well. i know people who can hear music and then just write down amazing lyrics that fit perfectly - but for me it takes more time; a bit like writing poetry. i guess it depends how deep you want a song to be.

With my music I usually write the poetry first, sometiems I'll use an old guitar riff I came up with once, other times its completely spontaneous. I'm the songwriter in my band. Its very much like nirvana/smashing pumpkins as far as writing a song goes. I'm the frontman and I write the lyrics and main guitar parts, and I let my bassist and drummer do what they think the song needs. However, its not really a consistant thing, sometimes the guitar comes first, and other times the lyrics do.

Lyrics first:
I usually write my poems in less than 20 minutes, sometimes in just five, cause i feel if there's too much thought it gets difficult and boring. Usually I'll just pick a chord I want a to play in a key I can sing and just improvise there. Other times I'll have an old riff. Once I get the chord progression down for each section i decide if it needs a guitar solo or where to stop playing guitar and when feedback would be a good effect.

Guitar first:
Usually I'll have a riff and come up with two more riffs in the same key and a guitar solo. Then I'll sing a long with each riff making up lyrics till I find something catchy or just plain good poetry. then I goto my computer and write off that line/feeling. Lastly I have to go back and put each stanza with a riff.

After I write the guitar and lyrics I take it to the band practice and I'll show my bassist the riffs and the order they go in. And then we play through the song so the drummer can get a solid drum part. My bassist doesn't even memorize the songs, he just looks at me and follows the lyrics to the changes. Other variables is soemtime I tell ym drummer to do a certain thing or they'll let me know if I should take a part out.

EDIT: oh and my band plays Garage, grunge, rock and roll.

myspace? You made me curious now ^^

We don't have any with our new drummer. Our old drummer sucked but if you stillw anna check it out www.myspace.com/thetoadstools. those are our more punkish songs.

We've only played our first show this past friday, which went real great. The guy who organizes the shows was real impressed by our performance and the crowd we brought. If you're not bored by poetry my personal myspace is www.myspace.com/cosmicwandererAnd my blog is full of stuff.

I personally don't have a specific way of writing a song, just kinda happens but I do have a few tricks. When it comes to riffs I attempt to make a riff that encompasses everything good that I see in the music I like. For example I would listen to a whole bunch of songs that I love & take all of the best bits out to form a completely original but awesome riff. Kinda sounds like I'm stealing parts but its really not, if I just made up riffs without listening to anything before I'm sure that I would subconciously steal riffs anyway.
Lyrics I think are they most fun. The melody to the song is easy. Virtually when I have a certain riff I start singing along to it even if what I'm singing sounds just like random rhyming verses thrown together. Then if I like anything from what I'm singing on the spot I'll write it down & go over the lyrics properly after to make them actually mean soemthing. Then again, if your writing the lyrics before the song the best thing is to not write about anything in paticular. Just write what comes into your head & make meaning with it when its done. Heh, the other day I wrote aload of lyrics that sounded like a bittersweet love poem but when I was writing I actually had a muffin cake in mind !

Just play what sounds good - get an idea of what type of song u'd like to write - then just work and work and work on it until it sounds like it does in your head. There's no right or wrong way to make a song. The end justifies the means.

PumpkinPieces link=topic=1639.msg27257#msg27257 date=1182817514]
We don't have any with our new drummer. Our old drummer sucked but if you stillw anna check it out www.myspace.com/thetoadstools. those are our more punkish songs.

We've only played our first show this past friday, which went real great. The guy who organizes the shows was real impressed by our performance and the crowd we brought. If you're not bored by poetry my personal myspace is www.myspace.com/cosmicwandererAnd my blog is full of stuff.


I like the old songs. The guitars sound a little quiet, but that's obviously just the recording. You're right, the drummer's not very good, but the rest is just fine.

Yeah thankfully we have a new drummer. The guitar is quiet probably because my old drummer edited the recordings.