I didn't take the time to read all the posts, but i beleive in God, or at least the possibility there is one. But i just try to live morally, and hopefully it'll pay off =/. But Billy had a good point in that if God gave us free will, he'd want us to believe in ourselves first.

I've been through a lot of ups and downs with the whole religion thing, and, even though I'm probably going to get cursed out and chewed up for this, I think I have something to share regardless.

I was raised in a strict Chritian household by a hypocrite who would attempt to rewrite the Bible in order to fit his needs until one day, his back got in such bad shape that the man gave up on life altogether. With that in mind, the very fact I believe in God at all ought to be seen by someone as a miracle. Basically, I was raised in a world where religious belief was the end-all be-all of existance, and when that faith failed my dad, he simply gave up. He still goes thru the motions of chruch and that, but you know he doesn't beleieve anymore. He compares himself to Job. I don't know. All I know is, Job didn't get it, and neither does my dad. Sometimes, I wonder if I even get it, but that's part of the process, I guess.

Here's the thing, from my experiences, I know God is real, but the personalization and whatnot offered by organized Christianity might be off-base and, sadly, completely useless to those who truly seek to know God in any of his names and forms. I believe that God will seek you out, not the other way around, and contact you if you're willing and wanting. If you want to find God, God will find you, and tell you, in ways you will understand, the truth, whatever that truth might be. And it might not be the truth you were raised with, or expecting. But if you believe it, and trust it, you'll know. And this sounds nuts, mostly because, well, it is. Faith is not sane and rational, thus, why so many people who claim to have it act in such atrocious ways in the name of God and Faith. There's a balance, and sometimes, you have to openly disagree with religion, with the set rules of those who claim to know God, because they're either wrong, misguided, or just plain stupid. If it seems wrong, and it hurts others, it probably is, and if it's none of your business, and it doesn't affect you or anyone else in a negative way, then it's not worth bothering with.

Faith is a great thing for people who have it. It makes them feel a part of something greater, whether it is real or not. I have my faith, and I feel comfort in the fact that the God I know isn't the crazy motherfucker some make him out to be with their crusades and hate speech. But I also have to use common sense. if I believe that God is ultimately a benevolent force/being, then he/she/it/whatever wouldn't ask me to kill on thier behalf, or discriminate against someone's love, or understanding of their faith. And one shouldn;t expect faith in something greater to make life better or easier, because, in the words I was given to say, which may make God seem cold or heartless, but they are, simply, "God don't give a fuck." Now, that's harsh, but think of this... we're dealing with a force that supposedly created the cosmos and whatnot, and you expect him to give a shit about your bad day? In the great scheme of things, we're egomaniacal freaks because we expect this force that is greater than all that is known to give two shits about beings who are, in the greand scheme of things, nothing more than fleas on a pile of dirt that rotates a minor star. So we suffer, we deal, and one day, we'll know why.

Nothing is random. All works for a reason and purpose. Faith is illogical, but the universe works in logic, as (I believe) does God. If life sucks, there's a reason, and we're in no position to complain. Play the role. It's why we exist.

I like you

the only thing I don't agree with is what looks like predestiny

Nothing is random. All works for a reason and purpose. Faith is illogical, but the universe works in logic, as (I believe) does God. If life sucks, there's a reason, and we're in no position to complain. Play the role. It's why we exist.

I don't know if that's really what you mean, but I don't think I believe in fate or having a predetermined future. I like to think we live our lives based on the decisions we make throughout. If everything was pre-determined, we wouldn't have to worry about the devil and corruption, because if we're predetermined to go to heaven, then we're going to heaven. The same works for hell.

See, that's where I still find the quandry, really. I don't worry about the Devil or whether I'm going to Heaven or Hell. At least, not anymore. I used to. Often. But I guess that's the sort of faith thing falls into place. A few years back, some of the youth leaders and I were talking about faith, and what that really meant. And they would keep asking me if I knew where I was going after I died. Not knowing otherwise, I figured I'd find out when I died, just to have some of them reply, "I know, right now, for sure." So, I try not to laugh, and humor the idea. But, at the time, I wasn't really saved, either. Now, I don't want to get to deep into the idea of being "saved" or "born again" because that tends to scare people and give them the wrong idea. But, my point is, I didn't know God then, and I didn't understand him. I do now, and I know I'm not to be forsaken, because Jesus took care of all of that. It doesn't mean I'm perfect. Far from. Perfection is a process, not a completion. But I also don't worry about where I go or where I stand. God will tell me. And He knows where I need work. I'm not a very nice person. Not really. He knows that, and continues to work thru that. I'm better than I was, but there was a time I wouldn't have bothered with a forum like this, nor chose to come in peacefully. But that has come with time and maturity. Some of the hostility I used to have was my own creation, and, now that I've allowed myself to calm down, stopped blaming God for everything, and actually took the time to see where I screwed things up, it makes life a little easier to digest.

The "All works for a reason and purpose" comes from the verse, "All things work for the good of those who love Him" (severely paraphrased, as I'm currently blamking on the book/chapter/verse, although I'm 100% sure it was a book of Paul). God has a plan, and it's going to work out despite us. We can either be a part of it, or not. So, we do have a choice, but it doesn't mean God's will, the greater purpose, won't happen. But I've come in time to learn that it's better to paly the role I'm given and let God's purposes come about naturally.

I hope I didn't giove you the wrong idea, and I'm sorry if I had. Hopefully this clears up some things. But the whole predetermination thing is not what I was intending, at least, not entirely.

Oh... and I also come from the mindset that part of the reason life sucks is because it forces us to think and grow. Like, we wouldn't have computers or the internet or cures for diseases or electircity and all that if life was easy, you know? So, it forces us to become stronger, smarter, faster. In other words, it forces us to evolve. I know using the word "evolve" might be controversial for this sort of a discussion, but it seems appropriate to me. I'm not talking about monkeys becoming man, but rather mankind developing our full potential.

I think the meaning of life is to be happy, and you must do whatever it takes to be happy as long as it doesn't effect other people's ability to be happy. For me, I was not happy praying or going to church because I truely don't believe there's anyone up there(besides airplane pilots and passengers). So you can see it was a no-brainer to become athiest.

Once an idea or a religion becomes more of a burden than a blessing, it's probabaly best to just let it go.

I don't pray regularly, but I do claim to talk to God from time to time, which most would regard as prayer. Haven't been to a church in some time, but I do believe in God. I hestitate to call myself Christian because of the negative connotation it bears in my own mind because of those I saw in my life who felt the need to bully those different than them in the name of Christianity and God. And I hope I'm not becoming like them in my own philosophy. If I am, feel free to shoot me. Seriously.

TheMaverickMJ link=topic=504.msg18192#msg18192 date=1174432159]
I hestitate to call myself Christian because of the negative connotation it bears in my own mind because of those I saw in my life who felt the need to bully those different than them in the name of Christianity and God. And I hope I'm not becoming like them in my own philosophy. If I am, feel free to shoot me. Seriously.

You shouldn't be ashamed to be Christian. hatrid and ridicule is not what it was founded on(to my knowledge). That's the same case with Muslums. My musum friends are ashamed of their religion because of the certian assholes who try to justify their acts of terror with the muslum faith. I personally like to tease Christians based on the fact that the church is so intolerant and cult-like hahaha

i would never judge someone who is religious or goes to church but religion is a waste of my time so many rules, if you do that your going to hell etc if your religious cool if not life goes on, also every religion says its the only true one that means there so many false religions out there this topic is crazy. my religion i guess is the minister is and

TheMaverickMJ link=topic=504.msg18192#msg18192 date=1174432159]
I hestitate to call myself Christian because of the negative connotation it bears in my own mind because of those I saw in my life who felt the need to bully those different than them in the name of Christianity and God. And I hope I'm not becoming like them in my own philosophy. If I am, feel free to shoot me. Seriously.


Exactly the same with me, i prefer to just say im spiritual as aposed to a christian, so i can have faith my own way, because all organised religions are, by nature, corrupt. Having said that, i still go to church, but i have no ties to any denomination (at least not anymore), because there is nothing i hate more in life than being categoriesed, i go to church to be with christian people and hearing what the preacher has to say, because i chose to, not because its fashionable.

Which is anouther thing, its interesting nowdays that christianity is basicaly politicaly incorrect, they composition in the church becomes much better i think. Because in the 'olden days', where everyone went to church because it was THE thing to do, most of the people werent there in sincerity, there were there for the sake of going. Nowdays the only people that go are the ones who are genuine, which i think is fantastic.

I believe in me. i pay my rent, i feed myself. i tell myself that things will get better when everything goes to shit..and when i was incapable of doing that my parents were my god, and all i cared about... i also believe in decent human fucking contact. id die without friends. the only thing that keeps me from being a full blown athiest is that guy named jesus that willingly died to save a heap of people that wouldnt even know him...or atleast that was his thinking...im not ready to judge him as a crazy person yet.

read 2001 a space odessy last month. id believe in a monolith being responsible for our evolution before adam and eve hahahaha.

adam and eve is a parable, but thats a different story...

this is probably nothing new but...
religion = mass delusion.
by its very nature, belief is an excuse for lack of proof. if you don't agree with that, you at least have to admit that belief is a pointless exercise, since it has absolutely no effect on the objective truth. the idea of God is way to anthropocentric to be taken seriously, if you agree with evolution and/or science in general.

you sound like a very sad person...

"belief is a pointless exercise"


there is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in something or somebody.

actually i'm a completely happy person. studying Taoism has given me a perspective that is [apparently] completely foreign to most people.
i admit i'm a little bitter towards religion b/c of all the evil and coercion it has caused, [past, present, and probably future...] but i think the world would be a much better place if people relied on moral compasses instead of moral 'road maps'

...and i guess i really only dislike belief if people value it over rational thought.